A forum for radical insight into philosophy, politics, and social analysis."Have no fellowship with the works of darkness, but expose them" Ephesians 5.11
Thursday, December 12, 2013
Conversation With A Madman
5:36 PM (18 hours ago)
there is an undeniable war on christianity from both within and without. the church has always been persecuted in one way or another and beset by secularism and materialism as opposed to the sacred and the transcendent. in the age of our empirical scientific technological dictatorship, which has rightly or wrongly assumed preeminence in human affairs, the challenge to the absolute truth expressed by especially the Catholic Church is constant and unremitting. the state has assumed the mantle of humanist secularism as well as that of scientific materialism in its struggle to overthrow the hierarchy of religious faith built on the foundation of divine revelation and the human witness of the martyrs and saints. the present and obvious state of moral decay, existential alienation, and the rudderless drift of aimless souls seeking meaning in an increasingly chaotic and random world/universe all testify to the radical effects of mankind trivializing and abandoning its god given birthright in favor of the exaltation of the passing and tragic earthly kingdom as the ultimate aim of man. no legislation or legal maneuvering will be able to counteract and at the same time maintain this attempt to accommodate and delimit the transcendent and infinite to mundane and finite variables. man may and will not prevail in the attempt to enthrone reason anymore than the French revolutionaries succeeded in their attempt to enshrine the goddess of Reason in the person of a harlot on the altar of the Notre Dame. by the fatally unacknowledged limits of their mundane circumscription these great ersatz champions of Liberty Equality and Fraternity succeeded only in accomplishing the very antithesis of all those lofty noble and hopelessly erroneous counterfeits of the preexistent adamantine and indestructible attributes of the divine which the Almighty has foreordained to share with His ineffable creation.
12:36 AM (11 hours ago)
What you say is partially true, but I see no premeditated coercion here. As we discussed before, materialism, secularism, narcissism and commercialism is not being forced on people by government or business. They put these material things out there and the people make their choices. As I said re. these things [materialism, narcissism etc.] being able to successfully compete and win in the free market place puts the onus on the Church: what is their counter-competition? As I said: the same old "turn to Jesus, reject the material world and pray" can't be the counter-offer because it isn't working, people are ignoring it. People are making a free choice and saying: "what has religion to offer me when I can go out there and get all the cars, sex, football and flat screen TVs I want?" The Church needs a response and needs it now. What will it be? I suggested Pope Francis and the Nuns On The Bus could be the offer. What do you say? Because an offer must come very soon or the Church will see a serious diminution in revenue via parishioners leaving.
As to knowledge. Remember: the Church has accepted Darwinism for years and science in general after they got burned so bad with Galileo and Pope Urban VIII.. Seeking more and more knowledge is native to man. Knowledge is everything. Knowledge is all there is and why we're here. God is that knowledge because God=quantum physics + gauge invariant energy fields in probability space. Knowledge has increased man's lot since the invention of the wheel and onward. We are on the verge of incredible knowledge in science. I mentioned genetic engineering and stem cells, but so much more is coming in other fields due to IT and a yearning and susceptible young population. From our standpoint, you and I can scarcely imagine what lies ahead. You know, there are some forms of process theology that assert that God himself is evolving along with man. This sounds nice but seemingly conflicts with the absolute relationships of quantum energy and mass states. But I guess even on the sub sub sub atomic levels perhaps there is a subtle evolution. I mean we know that even super stable particle like the proton do decay over trillions of years. I have always seen knowledge as compatible and symbiotic to spiritual concepts like the incarnation. But you are right: there is a diminution in traditional spirituality. Perhaps it is part of the evolutionary process.
thank you, Pangloss Verkhovensy. your bizarre rationalizations of the deplorable depths to which the human estate has inexorably plummeted relies intrinsically on the vague and mistaken assumption of the notion of human progress as contained in the insupportable triumphalism of the western scientific technological imperium and the outdated, discredited and highly presumptive doctrines of positivism all mingling in a veritable gallimaufry of random and conflicting particles of thought bombinating in the ossifying grey matter of your constricting and convoluted cranial carapace. While you sit there in your comfortable quarters bandying about your superficially comprehended theories on god, quantum physics,and "invariant energy fields", the entirety of the Pacific Ocean and its aquatic animal creation is succumbing to the incessant bombardment of radioactive isotopes emanating from one of the many toxic and decaying monuments to the hopelessly flawed hubris of scientific imperialism exemplified by your mawkish paeans to its primacy. This is not to speak of the massive increases in hyperthyroidism being found in newborns on the West Coast due to the same malignant agency of mass destruction. And what do your brave ministerial creatures of state do to alleviate this unholy mess. They institute proscriptive laws of secrecy threatening 10 years of prison time for factual reporting on this unparalleled environmental catastrophe. All across the middle east we find the same devastating grotesque malformed perversions of your "sub sub atomic levels" of nature thanks to the depleted uranium casings employed in the more recent efforts of your heroes of scientific engineering to eviscerate the most developed nations of that region destroying basic infrastructure and reducing the remaining populations to mere semblances and shadows of civilization. So much for your idiotic claim that "knowledge is everything".
10:34 AM (1 hour ago)
Well spoken. I think I understand you. Indeed, the world is replete with problems. But I do want to re-emphasize that what the evangelicals and Republicans see as a premeditated war on religion is false. It's the people themselves who choose this lifestyle. Again, if secularism, materialism, narcissism and commercialism can successfully compete in the free market place and win, what must the Church/religion do? How do you answer a person who queries: "Why should I turn to Jesus and religion when I can go out there and get all the cars, sex, football and flat screens TVs I want?" You must provide that person with ananswer. I can't.
i don't think it's up to either one of us to provide the answer to a question that poses a basically irreconcilable conundrum. yet the question itself in its inherent contradiction provides the answer. the present inhabitant of the Chair of St. Peter by the choice of his papal moniker "Francis" and his at least symbolic attempts to distance himself from the perquisites of the royal papacy seems to be emphasizing the return to voluntary poverty. This implies a renunciation of material goods apparently with saintly monasticism of the poverello as a model. Anyone reading the life of St. Francis especially the simple depiction by St. Bonaventure is immediately encountered with the very real consequences of such an action for the poverello. Possessed of only his rough woolen habit, a pair of threadbare underwear and a rope for a belt, il poverello and his monks lived a life of utter and complete self denial. They actually envied the most abject and miserable of beggars and rather than attempting to assuage and ameliorate such grinding poverty they sought to emulate it. Now who among us today in this modern age of endless acquisition and lust for material goods an lucre would actually follow this radical course of action modeled as it is upon the poverty of the Master himself who "had no place to lay his head"? Certainly not el papa himself who despite all of his voluntary divestiture of the privileges of his office still leads a very comfortable life as do many of us swathed in the illusory complacency of material luxury of our modern utopia provided for us by the not only the methods of production provided for by empirical science but the highly complex artifacts of machines of war which guarantee our abundance by the expropriation by force and violence of the vast majority of the earth's resources. The former divine right of kings has been transformed into the divine right of science and translated into the insatiable consumerist greed which up to this point has been seen as unbounded and limitless. Well, that is fast coming to an end not only with the very profound economic dislocations which the Western nations are experiencing but also the unparalleled environmental disasters being unleashed by either the conscious misappropriation of the tremendous power of advanced technology or a basic and fatal misunderstanding of the extensity of this genie uncorked from its bottle.The consequences of such unbridled empirical scientific ambitions to subdue and control great nature and bring all the nation states under the unassailable aegis of one world government which are just beginning to be felt will be severe in the extreme and perhaps bring us unwillingly to that point of grace and poverty in the midst of collective affliction which il poverello so desired himself. I think the very destiny of the present pope himself will be inevitably expressive of this in ways that he himself cannot foresee.
10:20 AM (8 minutes ago)
Erasmus, this is political drivel, garbage and below your intellectual acumen. Furthermore, I'd be careful of this stuff. The NSA knows you are viewing it. Let's move on to reality and discuss physics, theology, Platonic philosophy and Spinoza. Wasn't the Higgs boson and Bell's Theorem enough for you?
Let me ask you this on a purely practical basis: if our present social condition of materialism, secularism, narcissism and commercialism allowed to continue, does it really matter? If the people are allowed to get their stuff and do what they want, does it really matter? If religion takes a nose dive because the people lose interest, does it really matter? If the universe persists because of quantum mechanic energy fields which are invariant, does all the moral protests over homosexuality, rampant sex, pro-choice and the loss of white middle class Christian family values really matter? If all social endeavors are corrupt yet the people are fed, creativity thrives and the earth stays on its axis, does it really matter?
There is a special providence in the fall of a sparrow [Hamlet] which is death due to the thermodynamic laws of entropy.
Let's be content with our mental constructs of heaven and hell, because does it really matter after all?
If God does not exist, everything is permitted [Dostoyevsky]
If God does not exist, everything is permitted as long as it's funny. [variation by Johnny Dodge]
If a man enjoys a Beethoven symphony, a Chekhov short story, a football game, a good fuck or a Plato dialogue, does it really matter? To anyone?